How to improve the longevity of a product designed for the tropics - meret jans
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Design- und Medienstrategien Suitable materials for tropical regions
Zürich, 9. Januar 2021
How to improve the longevity of
Doziert durch Margarete von Lupin
VID19, HESE20
a product designed for the tropics
Geeignete Materialien für Tropenregionen
Wie man die Langlebigkeit eines
Produktes für die Tropen verbessert
Meret Jans
Industrial Design, ZhdK
3
Content Inhalt
Initial situation 4 Ausgangslage
Interview 7 Interview
Vladimir Garcia 7 Vladimir Garcia
Interview 10 Interview
Doel Fresse 23 Doel Fresse
Interview 25 Interview
Small decay study 38 Kleine Zerfallstudie
Thesis 42 These
Conclusion 44 Fazit
(Central concepts) 50 Zentrale Begriffe
(Independence) 51 Eigenständigkeit
(Image directory) 52 Bildverzeichnis
(Bibliography) 53 Literaturverzeichnis
Übersetzungen aus dem Deutschen ins Englische sind von der
Autorin mit Unterstützung von DeepL gefertigt.
Translations from German into English were done by the
author with support from DeepL.
4
Ausgangslage
Wie oft musst Du Deinen Dosen- innert wenigen Monaten kaputt scher Tropenregionen leidet, lässt
öffner ersetzen? Wie oft kaufst Du gehen. sich hingegen3 bestätigen.
eine neue Mikrowelle? Und wie oft
gibt es einen neuen Türgriff an Gebiete am Tropenring gehö- Um die Problematik aus der Sicht
die Hauseingangstür? ren zu den weltweit finanziell betroffener Menschen analysieren
schwächsten Ländern. Um lang- zu können, habe ich Interviewter-
Sofern dies nicht mindestens alle lebige Produkte herstellen zu kön- mine mit zwei Experten aus Pu-
drei Jahre der Fall ist, wohnst Du nen, müssten jedoch belastungs- erto Rico vereinbart. Zusätzlich
vermutlich nicht in einer tropi- fähigere und somit oft auch teure konnte ich mich regelmässig mit
schen Region.1 Materialien oder Verarbeitungs- der schweizer Honorarkonsulin
verfahren eingesetzt werden. vor Ort austauschen und eine klei-
In der Schweiz als langlebig gel- ne Zerfallstudie mit Objekten aus
tende Materialien wie Stahl, Höl- Die Thematik ist aktuell und bri- dem Haushalt betreiben.
zer, Textilien oder Kunststoffe, sant. Wie die James Cook Uni-
kommen in tropischen Regionen versity Australia in „State of the In die Recherche zu dieser Thema-
an ihre Grenzen. Das Klima ist tropics 2020“2 berichtet, wird bis tik bin ich mit folgenden Fragen
extrem - der Anforderung sind 2050 rund 50 Prozent der Welt- gestartet:
vieler. Objekte aus jeglichen Ma- bevölkerung in Tropenregionen
terialien müssen, nebst dem hohen leben. Die Langlebigkeit der Ma- 1. Welche Materialien können
Salzgehalt in der Luft, auch star- terialien ist dabei heute schon für zur industriellen Produktion
ken UV-Einstrahlungen, Regen- den Lebensstandard von rund 40 genutzt werden?
fällen, Temperaturschwankungen, Prozent der Weltbevölkerung re-
tropischen Stürmen und Hurrika- levant. 2. Was ist bereits über die Prob-
nen bis zu Erdbeben standhalten. lematik bekannt und was ge-
Schon bald stelle ich fest, dass schah aufgrund dieser Einsich-
Ich beobachte, dass Alltagsgegen- sich keine Literatur zu (Industrie- ten?
stände, welche man in der Schweiz design spezifischen) Materialien
bei sachgemässer Behandlung jah- für die Tropen finden lässt. Dass 3. Ist es möglich, tropen-klima-
relang nutzen kann, in den Tropen Materialien unter dem Klima typi- tauglich zu produzieren?
1
Interview-Frage Nr. 10 im Gespräch 2
Expanding tropics will play greater glo- 3
Deterioration of materials under tropical
mit V. Garcia und Nr. 8 bei D. Fresse bal role, report predicts, SCIENCE, von conditions, T. L. Webb, J. H. P. van Aardt
(2020) Allie Wilkinson (2014) (1959), mehr dazu im Fazit
5
Initial Situation
How often do you have to repla- Areas on the tropical ring are To be able to analyze the problem
ce your can opener? How often among the world‘s financially from the perspective of affected
do you buy a new microwave? weakest countries. To be able to people, I arranged interview ap-
And how often do you put a new manufacture long-lasting pro- pointments with two experts from
door handle on your front door? ducts, however, more resilient Puerto Rico. Besides, I was able
and thus often more expensi- to communicate regularly with
If this is not the case at least ve materials or processing met- the Swiss honorary consul on-site
every three years, you probably hods would have to be used. and conduct a small decay study
don‘t live in a tropical region.1 with objects from the household.
The relevance of this topic is in-
Materials that are considered du- creasing. As James Cook Univer- I started my research on this topic
rable in Switzerland, such as steel, sity Australia reports in „State of with the following questions:
wood, textiles, or plastics, reach the tropics 2020“2 , by 2050 around
their limits in tropical regions. 50 percent of the world‘s popula-
The climate is extreme - the de- tion will be living in tropical re- 1. What materials can be used for
mands are many. Objects made gions. The longevity of materials industrial production?
of any material must withstand is today already relevant to the
not only the high salt content in standard of living of around 40 2. What is already known about
the air, but also strong UV ra- percent of the world‘s population. the problem and what hap-
diation, rainfall, temperature pened as a result of these in-
fluctuations, tropical storms and I soon discover that no literature sights?
hurricanes, and even earthquakes. can be found on (industrial design
specific) materials for the tropics. 3. Is it possible to produce in
I observe that everyday objects, That materials suffer from the cli- a way that is suitable for the
which can be used for years in Swit- mate of typical tropical regions, on tropical climate?
zerland if treated properly, break the other hand3, can be confirmed.
within a few months in the tropics.
1
Interview question No. 10 in the 2
Expanding tropics will play greater 3
Deterioration of materials under tropical
interview with V. Garcia and No. 8 in global role, report predicts, SCIENCE, conditions, T. L. Webb, J. H. P. van Aardt
the interview with D. Fresse (2020) by Allie Wilkinson (2014) (1959), more about this in the summary
7
Interview
mit Vladimir Garcia
Vladimir ist der Chefdesigner bei 2018 wurde sein Produkt Meteoro zent. Derzeit lehrt er im Departe-
Armada™, einer unabhängigen Teil der ständigen Sammlung des ment Industriedesign der School
Produktmarke und Designagentur Museums für Kunst und of Visual Arts and Design wo
mit Sitz in San Juan, Puerto Rico. Design in Miramar, San Juan. er auch die Leitung des des De-
Er erwarb einen Bachelor-Ab- Seine Designprojekte wurden in partments innehält. Weiter ist
schluss in Umweltdesign an der renommierten Kunsträumen wie er Mitglied der Design-Fakul-
Universität von Puerto Rico und der National Gallery (San Juan), tät an der Polytechnischen Uni-
einen Master-Abschluss in Archi- dem Design Central im Mata- versität der PR und der Päpst-
tektur am Southern California In- dero-Madrid, dem Architecture lichen Katholischen Universität
stitute of Architecture (SCI-Arc). + Urbanism Museum / A+U in der PR Schools of Architecture.
Bevor er Armada™ im Jahr 2007 Los Angeles und dem Museum Institutionell ist er Mitglied des
gründete, hatte er in verschiede- of Arts and Design, New York Verwaltungsrats des Mayagü-
nen Architekturbüros in Los An- City, sowie auf Designmessen wie ez Creative Business and Indus-
geles und San Juan gearbeitet. WantedDesign während der New tries Incubator, Puerto Ricos
Für seine Arbeiten wurde er viel- York Design Week ausgestellt. erstem Unternehmensinkubator-
fach gekührt, so wurde er zum Bei- Seine Arbeiten wurden inter- Programm für die kreativen Be-
spiel für das United States Artist national in online Design-Pub- reiche.
Grant Nominiert und erhielt meh- likationen wie Inhabitat, Design
rere Einladungen zur Teilnahme Milk und Yanko Design sowie in Das auf den nächsten Seiten fol-
an der Biennale of Ibero American Zeitschriften wie Details, Dwell gende Interview wurde auf Eng-
Design. Zusätzlich durfte er Puer- und Metropolis veröffentlicht. lisch geführt und ist in einer leicht
to Rico bei der ersten zeitgenös- überarbeiteten Fassung wiederge-
sischen lateinamerikanischen De- Vladimir beteiligt sich aktiv an geben.
signausstellung New Territories4 der lokalen akademischen Szene
in den USA vertreten. Im Jahr als Professor, Kritiker und Do-
| www.a-rmada.com Quellendeklaration 4
New Territories: Laboratories for
Personenbeschrieb zu V. Garcia von sei- Design, Craft, and Art in Latin America,
ner Website entnommen und übersetzt Museum of Arts and Design, NYC, 2015
8
Interview
with Vladimir Garcia
New Territories4 design exhi-
bition in the United States. In
2018, his product Meteoro beca-
Screenshot from the interview
me part of the permanent collec-
Abb. 1: VLADIMIR GARCIA,
tion of the Museum of Art and
Design in Miramar, San Juan.
held via Zoom, 2020
His design projects have been ex-
hibited in prestigious art spaces
such as the National Gallery (San
Juan), Design Central in Mata-
dero-Madrid, the Architecture
+ Urbanism Museum (A+U) in
Los Angeles, and the Museum
Vladimir is the Chief Designer at had worked in various architectural of Arts and Design in New York
Armada™, an independent pro- firms in Los Angeles and San Juan. City. Furhter his work has been
duct brand and design agency ba- He has been widely recognized exhibited at design fairs such as
sed in San Juan, Puerto Rico. He for his work, such as being nomi-
earned a Bachelor‘s degree in En- nated for the United States Artist
vironmental Design from the Uni- Grant and receiving several invi-
versity of Puerto Rico and a Mas- tations to participate in the Bien-
ter‘s degree in Architecture from nial of Ibero American Design.
the Southern California Institute Additionally, he was privileged to
of Architecture (SCI-Arc). Prior represent Puerto Rico at the first
to founding Armada™ in 2007, he contemporary Latin American
| www.a-rmada.com 4
New Territories: Laboratories for
Design, Craft, and Art in Latin America,
Museum of Arts and Design, NYC, 2015
9
Armada™, Powder-Coated Aluminum
Abb. 2: PLANTING VESSELS SERIES,
and Glazed Ceramic, 2013
WantedDesign, during the New rently he teaches at the Industrial Institutionally he serves as mem-
York Design Week and has been Design Department of the School ber of the Board of Directors for
featured internationally in on- of Fine Arts and Design of PR, the Mayaguez Creative Business
line design publications such where he is also appointed as De- and Industries Incubator, Puerto
as Inhabitat, Design Milk, and partment Chair. He has also held Rico’s first enterprise incubator
Yanko Design, as well as in positions as member of the design program for the creative fields.
Magazines such as De- faculty at the Polytechnic Univer-
tails, Dwell and Metropolis. sity of PR and the Pontifical Cat- The interview that follows on the
Vladimir participates actively on holic University of PR Schools of next pages was conducted in Eng-
the local academic circuit as pro- Architecture. lish and is reproduced in a slightly
fessor, critic and lecturer. Cur- edited version.
Source declaration
Personal description of V. Garcia
taken from his website
10
Interview
1. According to studies (De-
terioration of materials under
tropical conditions, 1959), the Abb. 3:
material decomposes faster in PUERTO RICO,
the tropical belt than in other Google Maps,
Screenshot,
regions of the world. You live 2021
in Puerto Rico, a tropical island.
Does this topic concern you?
Every day. We work with mate-
rials and we do constructions so
it‘s an issue that‘s always present.
And in terms of the weather here,
it‘s brutal. The thing that affects
most the materials is the change So even if you‘re on the inside of an tina... Some materials don‘t need
of the composition of the mole- apartment with the AC on all day to be coated, because they have
cules due to our weather. The du- long you will be affected by this pro-their natural coats, like brass or
rability and the toughness of the blem? bronze. Their patinas tend to be-
material are essential for whatever come really strong, because, you
we design. If it‘s inside or out- Yeah, it doesn‘t matter. We use know the patina is a reaction of
side doesn‘t matter because the a lot of metal because it‘s also a the material to the weatheriza-
humidity is everywhere so if it cultural thing. After all, it‘s a ma- tion. When you use that kind of
doesn‘t get damaged by the rain terial that is well known here and material you know how it‘s going
or destroyed by the wind of the we have people who can work it to weather. It‘s not ugly like rust.
hurricanes it will get rusty on the out very well. So every time you
inside because you have humidity use metal, you have to address that Does this mean that whenever you’re
and sea salt everywhere because with a coating that you choose to, using metal you keep in mind how it
we are so close to the coast pret- either it is a paint-like urethane, will develop due to the weatherization?
ty much everywhere on the island. polyurethane, or even if it‘s a pa-
| Interview with Vladimir Garcia Original interview duration
Approx. 1h 20min11
Interview
Yeah definitely. Then also the na- nerally spoken is important or How about wood. Is weatherization
tural patinas of the material be- not so important? an issue too?
come very strong. Sometimes, in
Yes, it‘s very important. In an
other climate zones, those patinas Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah... it‘s
area like this, where we have sus-
are very soft. In our climate, they not as aggressive as it is with me-
change to an extreme. The first tainability issues and we are try- tal, but still, it kind of is. We have
thing you want to do with the ma-ing to make more durable and to protect the wood from rodding.
long-lasting things that should
terial is to protect it from the de- It lasts kind of longer, the only
be a must. Nowadays that should
cade. And then for the finish, to be thing that will destroy it faster, is
also aesthetically appealing. be the norm. Products should be not a climate or weather thing, it’s
created and built to last as a first the termites. You have Teak Wood
2. Is the choice of material an thing. And if you want somet- that is a wood that is used on boats,
issue for you in connection with hing to be built to last you need to that are mostly for those exterior
longevity? Do you think the du- choose the best materials. So yes! purposes and it‘s a wood that will
rability of everyday objects ge- last forever in the exterior, even if
you finish it without protection.
But then you have something like
Abb. 4: pine that is a softwood, it will get
INSECT INFESTATION, damaged very easily. Softwoods
Mortar made of tropical
wood (type unknown),
are sweet for termites to eat. Once
Lisa Ladner, 2020 you get termites in your wood-
work, that‘s done.
You say termites don‘t eat Teak Wood,
do they in general not go to tropical or
hardwood?
| Interview with Vladimir Garcia12
Interview
Well, there are some hardwoods What about plastics? if we‘re talking about the value,
that termites don‘t bite. But most some people value the aesthetics
of them aren’t safe from termites I was just addressing the typical more than the object itself, so if
neither. On some woods like aus- like wood and metal, but let‘s talk the aesthetics are broken, it‘s just
ubo (Manilkara bidentate, “bullet about everything a little bit. Ce- not „functional“ for them anymo-
wood”) and purpleheart (Peltogy- ramics will get kind of yellowish re. It‘s aesthetically where you see
ne), they start doing it but kind of in the sun. Not everywhere but at the weatherization in the material
stop after a while. You can find tra- the edges of the pieces. Glass: you first and then the functionality
ces in those really hard woods, but don‘t have that kind of problem gets compromised so on.
they apparently stopped because with glass and everything glass-
it‘s just not right for them to eat. related. Plastics, plexiglass inclu- 3. Which five materials do you
There are chemical repellants but ded, and every kind of polyuretha- find most suitable for the cons-
you could also use natural finis- ne-related product, get damaged truction of everyday things?
hes like some mixes of linseed oil by the sun’s UV rays. Depending With what material do you pre-
which helps - it‘s kind of a natural on the composition it will just fer to work with and why?
insect repellant. start getting kind of pulverized. It
becomes like sand! Some plastics Aluminum because of what? Of
are very resistant, of course, they the weather! I don‘t like to use
are, but the sun is what damages carbon, like carbon steel. Because
them the most. It eats the color it just gets rusty in a second. So
and the coverings of the plastics. I prefer to do everything in alu-
minum. I don‘t like the quality of
But in regards to the object, which has stainless steel, it’s a hard mate-
been built by these materials, you can rial, it doesn‘t bend very easily, it
say that the object gets destroyed? cracks, the workability of the ma-
terial, I also don‘t like that much,
Abb. 5: PLASTIC OBJECT Yes, the performance of the ob- and then I don‘t like the aesthetics
(type unknown), light damaged,
ject definitely gets affected. And of the stainless steel. I like to use
Lisa Ladner, 2020
| Interview with Vladimir Garcia13
Interview
cementitious materials, also becau- but then we need to have a plan B very durable, beautiful, and well-
se of their durability. I like cera- and C because we just don‘t have it designed and build product. So I
mics too. If they are very well fi- available. If it‘s for exteriors, de- cannot speak badly about that pro-
red, they can withstand time. And finitely I would choose the most duct at all. I love it. But then you
the wood of course! In all the ma- durable woods, I would choose have that typical Ikea thing that
nifestations of wood. between those available with the you just assemble and then, once
aesthetic I like the most. That‘s you move it from the place you put
There is wood from here, from how it is. At least here. In our con- it the first time, it just gets all sha-
the Caribbean, it‘s called Blue Ma- ditions. ky and that‘s it. IKEA uses a lot
hoe (Hibiscus elatus/Talipariti of aluminum and they use a lot of
elatum) and it‘s not blue actually 4. What I don‘t understand is, coatings on the steel if it‘s steel,
it‘s a kind of purple, purple and that in some of your stores, e.g. so those products don‘t get dama-
grey like sand. It‘s a very beauti- Ikea, furniture gets sold (and ged that much by the weather. But
ful wood. And it‘s very contextual bought), which are produced in what gets damaged easily, are the
to our parts, to our geography. It‘s the same way as ours and which MDF products. They can’t with-
not long-lasting as Teak or the ot- cannot meet the climatic requi- stand our humidity and weather.
her I have mentioned earlier, but it rements. What do you have to That‘s their weakness. Their pro-
performs very well. say to this? ducts made out of plastics react
the same like plastics do everyw-
So for what kind of object would you We all know Ikea, and everybody here, every day if they are exposed
use it for? loves and hates Ikea. Some of their to the sun and the conditions we
products are really good, a small just bespoke earlier.
For interior works only. I choose fraction of them. I have some
woods in terms of durability. We chairs, which I bought from Ikea 5. Do you think that a lot of
don‘t have as many woods availa- maybe 5 years ago, Designed by things are sold locally that can-
ble here, because we import ever- the Studio From us with Love, and not withstand the climatic con-
ything. So in the material selec- they are beautiful. It‘s a byproduct ditions?
tion, we try to aim at a product, of plastic and wood. They are a
| Interview with Vladimir Garcia14
Interview
Things are not designed in terms won‘t get to a larger audience.
I don‘t have that knowledge of the
of a context. They never are. It‘s snow, because I‘ve never lived in a
What gets to a larger audience
not that they shouldn‘t but the mar- is whatever store sells in the US.
place with a lot of snow. I live in
ket doesn‘t allow that to happen. Again, availability is an issue. Be-
California and that doesn‘t count.
Objects are designed based on acause we are an island. And hey!
Why? That‘s an issue for us as a designer
market and to address basic gene-
every time as well. Availability of
ral functions. They don‘t differ in
Because of the design in terms of materials, services, specialists, and
terms of dryness, humidity, salt
functionality and the market. If people! Because then we are small
content, wind, amount, and inten-
you are buying furniture for the as well! That‘s another theme but
sity of sun... They are not desig-
exterior, of course, that will be I want to be clear on that. Our
ned for those specified, they are
designed for the exterior. But they market is small, which means that
designed for generalities. And they
don‘t design furniture for the trop- our custom-designed pieces for the
are also designed for a market in a
ics or furniture for the north. They tropics if you want to put it that
capitalist world, they just want to
don‘t design in terms of those spe- way, won’t have the reach that the
sell. So we get those products here,
cifics, they address functionality other markets do. And then the
it doesn‘t matter if they are good
issues and in those terms, they ad- markets that have the reach, not
or bad, we just buy them because
dress the issues that the furniture it‘s just that what is available. It‘s
all of them, are not well-designed
is going to be outside, they don‘t not designed by us for us. pieces that will fade with the we-
design for the amount of tempera- ather. If you buy a lamp here and
ture, the amount of sun, snow, or About 40 percent of today’s popula- it has a chrome finish, that chrome
rain, they don‘t take that into con- tion lives in the tropics.5 lamp is beautiful but it will only
sideration. last you a year here. It just gets
Yeah, but you know our work is a rusty and all crackly. So it‘s a be-
Those products will “survive” our niche. We are independent desig- autiful product which may be in
sometimes snowy climate much better ners. Our products don’t get sold a place without this weather will
than the climate in Puerto Rico. in Ikea so even though we have last. I don‘t know, but I assume.
a concern and we address it, we
| Interview with Vladimir Garcia 5
Expanding tropics will play greater global
role, report predicts, SCIENCE, by Allie
Wilkinson (2014)15
Interview
Yes, it would definitely! to have a really good base material The sun crackles the wood, di-
but then everything else should be scolors the plastics, and as I told
Considering your statement (that of the same quality too. You can you the ceramics as well. It brings
40 percent of the world popula- have a very nice piece of surfa- heat! And the change between heat
tion lives in the tropics) it would ce material, but if you use cheap and cold is what starts the com-
clearly be awesome if such a mar- hardware, like screws, metal loops, position in materials. It gets crazy
ket would be taken into considera- pieces of wire,… those additional hot here. And then suddenly, rain
tion. But it‘s not like that. Even ifcomponents will start the decom- comes. And gets everything cold.
they should take it under conside- position and you‘re gonna have the Then, half an hour later, you have
ration. We are looking into an area same problem, they will decay or the sun out again and two hours
where we have to address sustai- get ugly. later the thing is as hot as it was.
nability as a main issue for design. The paint gets damaged by these
Building things that are meant 6. You are a professor at the factors as well. You have to choo-
to last and that can be repaired. School of fine arts of Puerto se carefully what paint you choose
Rico. Are your students focu- for the materials. Powder coating
I teach my students that they sing on this subject? works best in terms of creating
should be designers that build that solid bond, urethane paints,
things to last. Beautiful things, du- Everybody here is. Once you put the one they use for cars and stuff,
rable things, and things with mea- something - even if it is was built works as well. Less than powder
ning. You have to create things for the exterior – outside, you will coating but they do well. On wood
conceptual meaningfully for peop- see the change dramatically and or, concrete-based products latex
le to get more attracted to them. I in less than a month the product paint performs nice but you have
mean it‘s not an issue of material starts getting dull, it just changes. to recoat the thing often. But all of
per se it‘s an issue of how you get So yes, everybody is aware of the those paints need to be reapplied
people to relate to the product and conditions and they design accor- every 2 or 3 years.
make it, that they want to keep it. ding to that all the time. We talked
And of course, it should be built a lot about the rain and humidity,
out of durable materials. You need but the sun is an issue here too.
| Interview with Vladimir Garcia16
Interview
7. What went wrong with the Well, let me tell you about this in front of the sea which accele-
promenade “Paseo Puerta de project particularly. That‘s not a rates the decomposition of that
Tierra” that was built in 2016? regular steal. That‘s corten6 steel. material exponentially. Further,
Is this a typical, representative Beautiful brownish when new, be- they didn’t consider that ever-
example, or was it a building cause the material itself is rusty. ything that touches that kind of
mistake. How would you have But the designer did not take into metal will get rusty too. You can
done it? Is it even possible to consideration that this material is see it on the concrete, the rust got
build durable buildings at this weak by its own composition. And transported with the water and
location? With which materials? then they put that material right affects it. It‘s a beautiful material,
Abb. 6+7: PASEO DE PUERTA DE TIERRA,
corrosion and decay, Lisa Ladner, 2020
6
Corten steel is a brown-orange steel. The
coloration is due to the self-protecting
rust layer that naturally forms over time.
Once it has matured, this layer of metal
| Interview with Vladimir Garcia
oxide is called a „patina“. Corten steel
is a metal that changes over time under
the influence of atmospheric conditions.17
Interview
but you have to know how to use 8. During my last trip to Puerto whole life of the product. For us
it. It‘s a design-based problem. It Rico I noticed that a lot of Sty- here, where we live with windows
was a bad selection of the mate- rofoam and PVC gets used. constantly open, it might not be
rial. I would have used aluminum much of a big deal, but if you use
for that location instead. Not even PVC is really toxic. One of the that material up north, where you
stainless steel. Because if they use worst plastics and it‘s very popu- are, and you have the doors closed,
an alloy with a lot of carbon on it, lar here. It wasn‘t like that always. you would be exposed to a harmful
even if it is stainless steel it will You couldn‘t have boards of PVC, lot of toxic vapor. Styrofoam gets
get rusty. In such a place I would like a board of plywood before. used a lot for disposal products
deal with paint and things to be But a few years back the industry here. It‘s a very American way of
able to protect it even more. Even started giving out PVC boards. So living. New York is covered with
aluminum needs to be protected. now, everything that was made Styrofoam-everything, from coffee
Not everyone likes the aesthetics out of plywood gets made out of to burgers, it‘s crazy. It‘s just a re-
of aluminum so sometimes I use PVC. Why? Because of termites. ally really really really really bad
powder-coated aluminum, or in Of course, it has good durability thing. They could do that out of
that case, maybe powder-coated and it‘s a cheap product. A good cardboard. But again, foam is real-
steel would work too. The prob- board of plywood is way more ex- ly cheap. Cheaper than cardboard.
lem with powder coating is... Pow- pensive. It‘s about economics as In Puerto Rico, none of those two
der coating is a process in which well. We are a poor country you materials can be recycled. The sus-
you use an oven. So you need to have to consider that. The eco- tainability issue on the planet is an
build something small enough to nomy is a big factor in terms of economics-based problem. It’s a
fit in that oven. Big things need to design. So people are using PVC capitalist world. And that‘s how
be built in a way that they can be like crazy but the material is a it works. That‘s why the whole
put apart, powder coated, and as- health problem. Once it‘s been planet is just like burning with all
sembled back together. You can‘t cut or worked out with machine- kinds of climate issues. It‘s a sys-
use powder coating if you haven‘t ry it produces toxic vapors. And tem that doesn‘t care about anyt-
designed it. it’s leaching these vapors for the hing but them. The profit.
| Interview with Vladimir Garcia18
Interview
What kind of plastics would you use? That‘s a good question. My elec- it‘s the cheapest alloy, but they
tronic devices only last for two are made out of ferrous materials,
I don‘t like plastics as a designer, or three years, and then I have to they should be stronger.
I know they can have very good throw them. The salt in the air de-
characteristics but in my prac- stroys them from the inside. From 10. Would you know of specific
tice, I don‘t use them. If I were microwaves to TV to computers… literature about industrial de-
to use them I would use plastics I didn‘t use guarantees on electro- sign and the tropics?
number 1 (PET) and number 2 nic products before, but now I add
(HDPE). These plastics can get the most powerful guarantee for Literature about Industrial Design
easily recycled here. If I had to everything I buy. I know they will in Latin America, that‘s a whole.
choose plastics I would choose break down sooner or later. I‘m That‘s hard to find. There is a pu-
them due to their qualities. That‘s sure that‘s because I live nearby the blishing house in Mexico. Look for
why they have different plastics, beach, but it‘s bad construction too. Dr. Oscar Salinas Flores. He is an
all have different qualities. But Something else that I have bought architect and industrial designer
I would only choose a plastic of about 100 times in the last 5 ye- from Mexico at UNAM, the most
which I can control the afterlife ars is can openers. I have bought prestigious University in Mexico
of the product. In Puerto Rico, maybe 10 of those guys in the last City. Oscar Salinas publishes his
we only recycle numbers 1 and 2. 5 years. And they are made out works in that publishing house.
So that‘s why I would use them. of metal, they are supposed to be He’s the one I have seen the most.
tough since you have to open cans All our other books are in English,
9. Which three objects annoy with them. I try to buy good ones, we get books from America and
you most that you have to repla- I buy the most expensive ones, but England, but not many from Spa-
ce them all the time? even though they break. What ma- nish speakers. There is a magazine
terial they are made of ? I‘m sure called “Experimenta” in Madrid,
| Interview with Vladimir Garcia19
Interview
they have a lot of books and maga- a base or we take social, econo- als you‘re looking for, but you will
zines regarding design. Maybe you mic, or cultural approaches. We get some answers in terms of the
can find something there. I haven‘t can point them out by specific es- tropics and how materials perform.
seen a book addressing that issue says, of which most are written Just last week, the Bienal Ibero-
of tropics and industrial design, by non-Latin American people. americana de Diseño took place.
maybe you can find something ab- It’s the most recognized design
out Latin America and Design. How come? forum in which the best designs
from whole Latin America, Portu-
So how do you teach your students? In terms of research and publi- gal, and Spain get presented. Besi-
Just from your own experiences? shing, it doesn‘t work like in Euro- des being a biennale it‘s an acade-
pe here. We don‘t get funded. When mic forum, in which experts give
Well, I don‘t know which books you don‘t get money to do research lectures for a whole week. From
you use, but there are not many or to write, you won‘t get books. gender quality to the design of
textbooks to teach design. I teach products and graphics to everyt-
by using essays, personal practice, The book of Bruno Stagno is a hing. Our design community got
experience, and by doing exer- classic. If you‘re addressing ma- large because of them. With some
cises of course. There is a lot of terials, you can rely on architec- exceptions, for example, Colom-
literature in terms of historical tural books regarding tropics and bia which has a lot of specialized
movements for the history of de- materials, because architects use manufactures, pretty much ever-
sign class. There is literature ab- the same manufacturing products ybody is on the same boat. We
out the production of materials as designers, they know materials, are in Latin America, it‘s a poor
and manufacture methods too. and their materials have to per- continent, very diminished by co-
We build depending on approa- form really well. Maybe you won‘t lonialism from day one. It‘s only
ches. The material can be used as get an answer to all of the materi- now that we are trying to emerge,
| Interview with Vladimir Garcia20
Interview
but still, nations are on develop- knowledge base to be able to take are the ones doing the researches,
ment and our conditions here are it to the next level. All the in- the research won’t get open to the
very limited by that in all aspects. vestigations and researches that public.
happen are funded by the private
This condition permeates to de- sector. It‘s not like how it happens When visiting the Museo de Arte y Di-
sign: how people use things, how everywhere else, if not academics seño de Miramar MADMi in Puerto
people buy things, what the mar-
ket role models are... They always
look north, they look to Ameri-
ca, it‘s crazy because they are the
worst. Consumerism, capitalism,
all crazy. So you have to position
yourself in this context to unders-
tand the repercussions of these
things. Things don‘t happen in a
vacuum, they happen in a context.
In the biennale, they were doing
a presentation regarding publica-
tion and research. And they were
all complaining about the same
things: Lack of funding, lack of
organization, and lack of a struc-
ture that can conglomerate that
Abb. 8+9: ¡BASTA!, Armada™, Chess
Set, Bronze Casting, Resin, MDF, 2018
| Interview with Vladimir Garcia21
Interview
Rico I noticed that many designers take pe. Maybe not that much of what something done in a way in the
references to their cultural heritage. is happening in Asia. Regional past and now you try to do the
language is defined by materials same thing in modernity and try
We as designers always follow available in place and manufactu- to see what comes out of that. De-
Europe. It‘s the capital of design, re methods known in that place. sign is a growing field in develo-
the industrial revolution happened They are trying to develop that ping countries. Even if Industrial
there. I‘m very aware of what is language in terms of aesthetics Design is pretty new. Before, the
happening in the US and Euro- and terms of modernity. You have only designer known were ar-
chitects and maybe a few fashion
designers. Only after, the graphic
¡Basta! (Enough) bluntly inquiries the islands’ lack of political design started happening, fashion
hegemony and its status as the very last colony in the world. design got more popular and now
you have product designers, inter-
action designers... Design is get-
ting expanded as a discipline be-
cause of the necessities. But our
country doesn’t have the money
to invest, we don‘t have industries
that support the disciplines. We
are pretty much all independent
designers, doing our products as
entrepreneurs. We don‘t have Nike
or Apple that recruits our students
and give them work. So that‘s the
condition here and those conditions
develop a different result in terms
of how the discipline flourishes.
Thank you.
| Interview with Vladimir Garcia23
Interview
mit Doel Fresse
Doel Fresse gehört zu den er- Derzeit ist er als Dozent und Pro- Shade. Darüber hinaus hat er an
fahrensten und preisgekrönten fessor an der School of Visual mehreren Messen und Biennalen
Produkt- und Möbeldesignern Arts and Design von Puerto Rico teilgenommen, wie der Wanted
in Puerto Rico. Sein Hinter- und als Kritiker in den wichtigsten Designmesse in New York und
grund in Architektur und Design Design-Institutionen des Landes der Ibero-Amerikanischen Design
hat es ihm ermöglicht, Entwür- tätig. Biennale.
fe für urbane und häusliche Mö-
bel, Spielzeuge, Objekte und Seine Arbeiten wurden in Puerto Das auf den nächsten Seiten fol-
Installationen zu entwickeln. Rico, New York und Madrid aus- gende Interview wurde auf Eng-
gestellt. Für sein Design wurde lisch geführt und ist in einer leicht
Er hat einen Master-Abschluss in er mehrfach ausgezeichnet, so er- überarbeiteten Fassung wiederge-
Design von der Parsons School hielt er den Urbe Award, den PPG geben.
of Design, New York, und einen Appreciation Award und wurde
Bachelor-Abschluss in Umweltde- für das US Artist Fellowship no-
sign von der School of Architec- miniert. Zusätzlich gewann er den
ture der Universität von Puerto ersten Platz beim internationalen
Rico, Campus Rio Piedras. Designwettbewerb The Future of
| www.doelfresse.com Quellendeklaration
Personenbeschrieb zu Doel Fresse
von seine Website entnommen24
Interview
with Doel Fresse
Doel Fresse is a experienced and
award-winning product and furni-
ture designer in Puerto Rico. His
background in architecture and de-
sign has enabled him to develop de-
signs for urban and domestic furni-
ture, toys, objects and installations.
He holds a master‘s degree in
design from Parsons School of
Design, New York, and a bache-
lor‘s degree in environmental
design from the School of Archi-
tecture of the University of Pu-
erto Rico, Rio Piedras Campus.
He is currently a lecturer and pro-
Abb. 10: DOEL FRESSE, Screenshot from the
fessor at the School of Visual Arts interview held via Zoom, 2020
and Design of Puerto Rico and a
critic in the most important de-
sign institutions in the country.
His work has been exhibited in Additionally, he won first place The interview that follows on the
Puerto Rico, New York and Mad- in The Future of Shade interna- next pages was conducted in Eng-
rid. He has received several awards tional design competition. He has lish and is reproduced in a slightly
for his design, including the Urbe also participated in several fairs edited version.
Award and the PPG Appreciation and biennials, such as the Wanted
Award. Further he was nomina- design fair in New York and the
ted for the US Artist Fellowship. Ibero-American Design Biennial.
| www.doelfresse.com Source declaration
Personal description of Doel Fresse
taken from his website25
Interview
1. According to studies (De- buildings, and everything grows So yeah, it is a problem for things
terioration of materials under very fast here. (laughs) It‘s kind of like that.
tropical conditions, 1959), the Mother Nature takes care of ever-
material decomposes faster in ything really quickly. So yes, it‘s a 2. You are a professor at the
the tropical belt than in other topic that is very important and Escuela de Artes Plásticas y Di-
regions of the world. You live I take it into consideration every seño de Puerto Rico. Are your
in Puerto Rico, a tropical island. time I design. students focusing on this sub-
Does this topic concern you? ject?
Okay and you do this as an architect
It does, deterioration happens re- but also as an Object Designer? Theoretically. I speak a lot about
ally fast here. Not only because of that, but in terms of making pro-
the weather itself, hot and rainy, Yes definitely. Right now I‘m loo- totypes, I don‘t make it a require-
but also the humidity affects a lot king at my ceiling fans. They were ment because it is expensive to use
of the things that we have, either made out of metal and will rust materials like aluminum and they
outside or indoor. It requires a really easily. Things made out of are also more difficult to work
lot of maintenance and you know compostable materials like furni- with because we don‘t have the
this is something we are not real- ture made out of wood, will get right facility to weld aluminum for
ly good at culturally. Right now in affected by the weather and humi- example at our university.
the city, in Santurce (the largest dity of the place too. Air conditio-
San Juan neighborhood) you see a ning will create condensation will What other kind of materials get
lot of run-down buildings. Most- increase the problems for those used by them?
ly because of the financial crisis materials. If you have a piece of
we have right now, and that situ- furniture made out of chrome for They do a lot of 3D-Printing
ation we have with the US7. Peop- example you will have to treat it (PLA and ABS) but in terms of
le abandoned their properties and constantly with oils to make it last. furniture mostly wood gets used,
that‘s happening more and more. especially plywood panels, carbon
Now plants have grown inside the steel and stuff like that.
| Interview with Doel Fresse 7
Puerto Rico is a commonwealth, Original interview duration
a colony of the United States. Approx. 1h 30min26
Interview
3. As an industrial designer Do you use this indoors and outdoors? for aluminum or galvanized steel.
and creator of all kinds of ob- What material did you use for the ar-
jects, you have probably dealt Usually, this gets used outdoors. chitectural project Helicon?
with many materials in the past. I do more small architecture in-
Which materials do you find terventions in existing buildings That was made out of „Sunbrel-
most suitable for products sold than furniture. And there I would la“ textile and aluminum. I won
in Puerto Rico? What do you use galvanized steel as I think it that international competition for
prefer to work with? lasts longer and it is cheaper than a building envelope. This was an
aluminum - that‘s the balance you idea for curtain wall buildings,
I love aluminum, it‘s great because always need to keep here. So I go where international companies
it‘s really easy to manage, light-
weight, and very durable in this
weather. There are many types of
finishes you can apply. I like to use
black oxide. It looks great with
that kind of finish! In terms of fa-
brics, I like „Sunbrella“. It’s expen-
sive but very durable. I use a lot of
galvanized steel too - painted gal-
vanized steel, it can also be powder
coated. However there is always a
debate here, some say that carbon
steel will last longer. But what I
have seen, is that carbon steel gets
more rusty on time and the galva-
nized one, even if the paint comes Abb. 11: HELICON, concept, a sun shading system for
off, can just be repainted and will existing buildings in the tropics, Doel Fresse, 2015
last longer.
| Interview with Doel Fresse27
Interview
want their corporate look here, too. I didn‘t want that to happen a balcony chair back, I want to en-
but at the same time, they have all with the chairs that I was desig- courage people to use their balco-
this glass where the sun comes in ning. I wanted to bring that chair nies, which is an idea that we are
and it makes it very unsustainable. to the next century. And that was losing more and more in terms of
So the idea was to sort of retrofit one of the ideas: to make it light- architecture. People tend to close
or adapt the surface to make it effi- weight and to make it more durab- their balconies with windows, to
cient and cover it in a way that the- le in terms of time. I always mix replace it with an air-conditioned
re is less need of air-conditioning the ideas of the use of architecture room, which I think is stupid, be-
on the inside. The additional idea and the use of the furniture itself. cause we have the tropical weather
was that it can collapse toward I did want to bring that feeling of that I think is great! I like the idea
the inside and resist the winds if a
hurricane comes.
4. For the rocking chair BAN-
DA you write that you made the
chair out of aluminum so that it
is lighter but also more durab-
le than its predecessor which
was made out of steel. Is this a
conscious decision for longevity
or what aspects were the main
ones?
It is actually a conscious decision.
I have seen that the design of the
original chairs got lost, because Abb. 12: BANDA, rocking chair, aluminum,
people just throw them away and Doel Fresse, year unknown
this creates a lot of metal waste
| Interview with Doel Fresse28
Interview
of promoting the use of balco- something that will not last long bably be hard to compete against
nies and terraces with this type of without the proper maintenance cheaper products made of cheaper
furniture and some other objects and treatment. materials.
which I‘m actually designing right
now. They all have to do with the But it depends on the wood no? Aren‘t We are in a consumer society whe-
idea of keeping doors open or ha- you at the source of tropical hardwoods? re people think the cheaper is bet-
ving cross ventilation. This clima- ter, even though the quality is not
te condition gives us possibilities Actually tropical wood is hard to as good. We live in a society where
which makes us unique in a way in find at our stores. Usually, it is people don‘t mind throwing things
terms of architecture. It‘s a condi- brought from other places. Teak away. Which is very similar to the
tion you need to love. (Tectona grandis) for example co- American culture in that sense.
mes from Costa Rica, and I think Most people are not that conscious
5. Is longevity of objects im- they have that sustainable labeled of the environment and the dama-
portant or not so important in (FSC) type of wood. We also have ge that they do to the environment.
your opinion? FSC maple, pinewood and bamboo You have to educate people, from
panels in our stores. The problem school age and on I guess, to have
It‘s always a debate in my head. I with FSC is, that they are more that consciousness about the envi-
like the idea of durability becau- expensive and will make your pro- ronment and let them make better
se it is sustainable. You have the- duct more expensive. Will you be decisions about buying stuff.
se objects be passed on from one able to sell it? Is this something
generation to the other, I like that that people will understand? Will 6. When I was in PR last time,
idea. I like to use long-lasting ma- they take sustainable issues into I noticed that some food trucks
terials for my objects. But I think consideration or not? This is so- around my mother‘s apartment
it depends on the type of object mething you have to think about replaced their disposable plates
that I am designing. Sometimes I as a designer. Here, if you have a of Styrofoam with something
like to use wood - and wood can be very expensive object it will pro- made out of paper or cardboard.
| Interview with Doel Fresse29
Interview
So I noticed a kind of rethin- 7. What I don‘t understand is, Not that I would have seen. That
king. Do you see this trend in that in some of your stores, e.g. would be great. I mean it would be
your general culture, maybe Ikea, furniture get sold (and great if you could manage to lower
among your students, or not at bought), which are produced in the cost of the productions and
all? the same way as ours and which materials. (laughs) and have a good
cannot meet the climatic requi- quality product which can compe-
People are changing especially in rements. What do you have to te to other products on the market.
that sector of consumption that say to this? That would be the best case scena-
is more frequent and where they rio. But it‘s hard, most of the ma-
don‘t get affected by the prize so Well I mean, I guess, to make fur- terials you get here have to come
much. People, I think, are willing niture durable is not convenient in from the US and fall under special
to pay a little bit more for food of many ways in a capital system like taxes and fees. That makes it very
better quality. The idea of consu- this. The finishes, the materials, difficult to lower production prices
ming products that are healthier everything will be more expensi- in Puerto Rico. Things that get
for yourself and connecting that ve. Also they want to appeal for produced here are very expensive.
to the environment is growing. the international market. If they We are an island and receive ever-
People get exposed more to healt- would have a line for the tropics, ything from the outside. It makes
hy and organic food then 10 years that would be great. But they pro- it even more expensive as we have
ago and I think this changes peo- duce what will work „everywhere“ to use the US-Navy Ships for im-
ple‘s minds. instead. portation - the most expensive one
in the world. If something comes
So they started switching to more or- This would be a great idea. Why do from China we first have to8 ship
ganic and sustainable products if it is not some of those stores have such a it to the US and only then, with
related to their own health. line for the tropics? Is there any store US boats we are allowed to import
which sells really high quality, long- them to the island.
Yes exactly. lasting furniture in Puerto Rico?
8
It falls under the „ley de cabotaje“, an
agreement made with the US where
they charge taxes for everything that
| Interview with Doel Fresse
comes to Puerto Rico, and says that
everything has to go through the US
shipping system.30
Interview
If you produce something by your 8. Which three objects annoy …and you need them a lot since ever-
own, do you have to sell it under a you most that you have to repla- ything grows so fast as you said ear-
special tax? ce them all the time? lier!
Yeah we have to. If you have a Well one of them is metal furnitu- Yes exactly!!!
store or something like that you re, they don‘t last long. You have
have to collect the IVU (Puerto to replace stuff like metal hinges, 9. In my online research, the
Rican Sales and Use Tax), this is hardware and door knobs really choice of materials in connec-
a tax over an object. If you‘re sel- often. Ah and gardening tools get tion with architecture seems
ling something to a specific person rusty reeeaaaal quickly! I have to to be hardly an issue; in Bruno
just like that you might or might replace them really frequently and Stagno‘s work, for example, the
not collect those taxes. they are hard to maintain. focus is more on the type of
buildings/microclimate control
Well but then I guess it‘s illegal...? (shadow casting, rainwater sys-
tems, etc.). What is your opi-
Yes exactly (laughs). nion?
How about American company which Well in Puerto Rico we mostly
sell their products on the island? use concrete for construction now.
Wood construction was the most
Well some American companies common way of construction here
have incentives. Big companies in the late 18th/19th century. Sin-
like Walmart, usually have such an ce the 20th century concrete beca-
incentive and pay less taxes to the me the material we use the most,
government.
Abb. 13: DOOR LOCK,
affected by rust, 2020
| Interview with Doel Fresse31
Interview
Abb. 14: REVUELO,
temporary architectural
installation, Design
Collaboration (D. Fresse
and W. Garcia), 2012
not only because of its durabili-
ty, but also because it’s ability to
withstand hurricanes. But good
wood construction are able to
withstand hurricanes too and even
earthquakes. That’s a problem
which we‘re having now with con-
crete. Some people here build their
houses without the help of archi-
tects and engineers. Where the
wood houses will move with the
movement of the ground and pro-
bably not collapse, concrete houses
might badly. It is something that look run down and the layer on What are your plans as an architect
we have to take in consideration. the outside will suffer, but it will for Puerto Rico?
At my university, this is part of a last longer. I live in this complex
discussion right now. Should we which has been built 1968 and is I would like to come more into the
go back to wood constructions or made out of concrete basically. It Eames type of view of architec-
shall we continue with the concre- has lasted because of its construc- ture or maybe Jean Prouvé, where
te construction? Wood needs more tion but also because of its good architecture is mountable, is a pro-
maintenance, you have to repaint design. The architecture is great. duct, where you can apply the idea
it more often. If you don‘t it will So I think that is one of the things of industrial design to architecture
rod and break. Concrete not that that makes it last too. The design and have this systematic construc-
much. If you leave a concrete buil- itself is good for the long lasting tion instead of building things that
ding without maintenance, it will of an architecture. are grounded. Things that cannot
| Interview with Doel Fresse32
Interview
be implemented to those existing I think this happens often. I mean And then the choice of the mate-
grounded buildings. And how to first the idea of building such a rials... You have a corten steel, a
intervene in existing buildings! heavy construction in a coastal material which is pre-rusted. It is
Which we have a lot. We have San- zone was a bad idea, environmen- supposed to be a controlled pro-
turce which has all of these beau- tally speaking, considering all cess where it will not rust anymo-
tiful buildings run down. It would the sediments and all the animals re, but this does not happen all the
be great to have a project, where which live in that ecosystem, it‘s time, especially not on this type of
we can rehabilitate these buildings not responsible to do that, first of location. A galvanized steel would
without building any more. I think all. A promenade, where people can have probably worked better.
we architects have to think about walk and cycle, I think that was a You can see it everywhere in the
that too. We have a lot of already good idea, to have that connection highways, the barriers they use
built buildings. So instead of buil- within the Escambrón Beach and here, are made out of galvanized
ding more, why don‘t we use what Old San Juan. steel and they last forever. The
we have right now? I think that‘s stainless steel they used however
the most sustainable way to do ar- But they usually turn this projects needs constant maintenance to
chitecture. into this heavy construction pro- keep it shiny and prevent it from
jects, so the architects, engineers rust. But if you cannot take any
10. What went wrong with the and everyone who is connected to kind of maintenance, I think it is
promenade “Paseo Puerta de the government make more pro- irresponsible to use that material.
Tierra” that was built in 2016? fit out of the construction.9 Then Building in a cliff like that with
Is this a typical, representati- contractors often use cheaper pro- the concrete exposed to the soil
ve example or was it a building ducts then written in their bid. movements, the dynamics and the
mistake. How would you have That‘s something that happens a rain, makes it very difficult for eve-
done it? Is it even possible to lot here in Puerto Rico. ry construction to last. There have
build durable buildings at this been made many mistakes on that
location? With which materials? construction.
| Interview with Doel Fresse 9
The architect fees are usually connec-
ted to the construction price, it‘s a
percentage of the construction price.33
Interview
So you would have made a lighter In terms of architecture, I think Food containers, definitely. I feel
construction made out of aluminum this projects should go in compe- so guilty every time I use a can of
or galvanized steel? tition, like they do in most states. beans or something like that which
Here you know, they usually go for is made out of metal and I have to
Yeah, definitely. I think that would the friend of a friend. throw it away, because there is no
have been a better combination. recyclability or anything. It‘s a pi-
That would probably compromise Really!? That‘s not mandatory in ece of metal I have to throw into
the aesthetics of the architect but Puerto Rico? the garbage. That is something
I think you have to put that in a that needs to be taken into consi-
balance and say that a project like No, it‘s not mandatory. It‘s somet- deration faster than anything else.
that should last at least 50 years hing discussed in architectural fo- The food industry should change
not 3 years. Especially with that rums, but it does not happen. It‘s their material to something less
costs of constructions. usually someone who knows so- durable and more bio-degradable.
mebody that gets the contracts.
It was very expensive I‘ve been told? So you don‘t have any possibility to
11. From an ecological point of recycle cans, beer cans etc.?
(32-38) Millions of dollars. view, it does not make sense for
all objects to be made of mate- Beer cans yes - aluminum can be
Do you think it has to do with cor- rials that last for eternity. For recycled. But the other ones, the
ruption? which products do you see the magnetic ones no. There is no
need for action to rely on other, way to recycle them here in Pu-
Yes definitely there is always a litt- durable or quickly degradable, erto Rico. Even the aluminum is a
le bit of that. And also you know, materials? bit difficult to get to a place whe-
making more money for less qua- re they will recycle them, because
lity, that‘s usually what happens we only have very few recycle sta-
here. It‘s sad, but it‘s the way it tions. We are not recycling glass
goes. anymore neither - which is really
| Interview with Doel FresseSie können auch lesen
